Women versus Men | Community Chat

[Jeremy King]

Hey all.

Expect some regular 'Community Chat' posts from me, as I aim to delve into the minds of the fantastic handlers who play here (either bravery or stupidity on my part, this). Also, feel free to post some yourself if there are any topics you're curious to discuss with the handlers here.

This particular topic is the age old question in e-fedding: should men be allowed to fight women? Or should the genders be segregated on the grounds of realism?

I'd love to hear reasons why people think genders SHOULD be kept separate. I'd also love to hear reasons why people think genders do NOT matter in a creative writing hobby.

What about the realism of it all? What about the suspension of disbelief? What about the fact it's just creative writing?

What are your thoughts and/or feelings on this subject?

Let's discuss!

[Deleted]

To me, I like how there is no boundaries and we can pit female versus male matches. Some of my most favorite moments in this hobby is squaring off against a female character. Jack Owyns versus Grace Taylor for example or Jack Owyns versus Priscilla Price.

Though in doing so, I think any sort of realism is obviously thrown out the window. Though as Davey knows I don’t really care too much for realism. It’s not my style, since I consider this a creative fictional hobby and I will push the limits. No way is a 5’4 120 pound female women, going to knock out a 6’9 300 plus man. Just not going to happen. One punch from a dude that size to a female that size, isn’t going to end well for the female. Same goes for a female that size submitting a man that size. Not going to happen.

I’ve never believed in separation either. Like I said, I don’t care for realism unless people are coming back from the dead or have super powers. I have lines you just don’t cross you know, haha. I like the way how things are done, and men and women can compete for the same titles, and be in the same match.

That’s my thoughts, haha.

Cheers!
-Trevor

[Deleted]

Normally I would say it dont work. But over the years (IE Mexico) you see it. All about selling it. So I think it works fine.

[Deleted]

I'm all for it because it goes a long way into making things fair. Everyone can compete for the same prize. Lex has had some great matches against female chars.

I look at indy wrestler Veda Scott who is tiny and has faced men in believable matches in reality.

[Deleted]

I find it too restrictive to separate the sexes. Would it necessarily work in real life? It can, but generally no. But for the game it's necessary to allow for some unrealistic elements.

[Deleted]

Sometimes it can be weird. For example a Barbie type of female character vs. an Undertaker type of male character. That would be weird as fuck.

But I like to see Men versus Women. Doesn't bother me.

[Deleted]

My view on this should be fairly predictable, as I handle more female characters these days then males. But there is a theme with all the female characters I write (Lava, Ash Scion, Alyssa Pryde, Anna Molly, Caite Blackbird, etc...) and that's the fact that they all consider themselves athletes first. I don't know if I could do what someone like Jas does and write these more superficial, Barbie-esque characters with any sense of credibility. She manages to pull it off, as do others, but I couldn't wrap my head around it.

[Deleted]

Equal Rights, Equal fights right?

[Deleted]

I've always been down for it, Keegan has fought women throughout his career and has no problem putting them in their place . But yeah, I say let the women fight dudes I mean it happens in Indies so.....why not right?

[Jeremy King]

I see the arguments for and against it in equal measure, which is a rare position for me to be in, as someone who tends to listen to both sides and then pick one. On this instance, I just can't.

On one hand, I understand that this is a creative writing hobby, completely fictional and out-with reality, so why not? Literature knows no gender boundaries.

However, on the other hand, I also understand that while we're writing completely fictional characters out-with reality, we're portraying a real world; a real person and working within the realms of realism. Therefore, having a 115 pound, 5ft 4 inch pixie destroy a 295 pound, 6ft 8 inch brute is just not going to happen...

... Unless it's kayfabed.

And that's where I actually stand in all of this.

Ultimately, the decision falls on the fed over whether men fight women. If the fed projects itself as a sports entertainment company with entertainers who compete in scripted fights, where the outcome is predetermined, then why not? What you have there is a sports-opera. It stands to reason that the pixie wouldn't be in any real, legitimate danger against the brute because you'd expect the brute to be a consummate professional who tells a story inside the ring to its conclusion.

However, if the fed projects itself as professional wrestling's answer to the UFC, whereby fighters are 100% real and the competition is as real as they come - no scripts, no predetermined match outcomes - then it defies realism to have the pixie fight the brute. Paige Vanzant and Brock Lesnar get into the Octagon to face each other 100 times. Paige Vanzant gets knocked the fuck out 100 times. That's just the way it is. Moreover, could you imagine if Dana said "fuck gender, I'm all about equality!" and allowed such a thing? The very first time a man bludgeons a woman to unconsciousness, say goodbye to your TV deals, your sponsorship deals, your investors, your business licence - everything.

Sure, you've got people who'll sit and say "come on, just suspend the disbelief on this one" and that's fine - but those same people are usually the first to REFUSE to suspend their disbelief at something else equally unrealistic, such as a character killing someone off screen. People may say it's apples and oranges but I totally disagree. We live in a highly sensitive, politically correct society now where even a movie poster where a male antagonist has his hand around the throat of the female protagonist causes outrage and uproar - and that's superheroes! Killing someone off camera is no more unrealistic than a woman fighting a man and it being accepted in western, mainstream media culture.

Given that you're all here and see the format of Engage, you'll know that I don't follow my own outlook, lol. That's because I'm catering to an audience, which is what fed heads should do, IMHO. The above is how I view it personally though.

[Deleted]

Interesting view lol, if I get destroyed then lol I'll know you reverted to your personal thought haha

[Jeremy King]

Jun 23, 2016 10:30:45 GMT @toxicdoll said:

Interesting view lol, if I get destroyed then lol I'll know you reverted to your personal thought haha

LOL! Nah, you're not Paige Vanzant in this equation, don't worry

As I say, I don't follow my own beliefs on it because I know the majority of the handlers (I.E the audience) don't see it like this. 95% of the time I'm going to cater to my audience, especially if I can see both sides of the argument.

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2016 10:33:46 GMT Jeremy King said:

Jun 23, 2016 10:30:45 GMT @toxicdoll said:

Interesting view lol, if I get destroyed then lol I'll know you reverted to your personal thought haha

LOL! Nah, you're not Paige Vanzant in this equation, don't worry

As I say, I don't follow my own beliefs on it because I know the majority of the handlers (I.E the audience) don't see it like this. 95% of the time I'm going to cater to my audience, especially if I can see both sides of the argument.

Women divisions in my very small experience usually don't work out and our pool is smaller than the guy ones. So feds that do separate usually are unappealing to me because of the restricted number of opponents

95%? Interested to see what 5% you don't cater

[Jeremy King]

Jun 23, 2016 10:41:20 GMT @toxicdoll said:

Jun 23, 2016 10:33:46 GMT Jeremy King said:

LOL! Nah, you're not Paige Vanzant in this equation, don't worry

As I say, I don't follow my own beliefs on it because I know the majority of the handlers (I.E the audience) don't see it like this. 95% of the time I'm going to cater to my audience, especially if I can see both sides of the argument.

Women divisions in my very small experience usually don't work out and our pool is smaller than the guy ones. So feds that do separate usually are unappealing to me because of the restricted number of opponents

95%? Interested to see what 5% you don't cater

Well, I'd refer you to the grammar post. I'll never not judge grammar for the reasons given, no matter whether the audience think I should or not. Some things I just feel too passionately about not to do and that's one of them.

[Deleted]

It's a case of weighing the ideal vs the practical though. Ideally they should be separate, to maintain realism. But in practical terms you'd need a large roster to achieve that and not have the handlers become bored with fighting the same few faces.

It's good that you, despite your own option (as I did it despite mine, where I'd have preferred a separation), can recognise what's better for the place as a whole.

[Deleted]

I’ve always found this to be interesting because this is a constant occurrence in the hobby. Women fight men and win all the time. This element kind of contributes to the overall feeling that it feels more predetermined than ever before over it being an actual fight, too, because a small woman can’t actually defeat a brute of a man in any combative capacity. There is fiction and there are physics.

Therefore, I’ve always enjoyed separation of genders for realism. But it’s too hard to pull off – even in a very large fed – due to the fact that it draws a line in the sand for handlers. Everyone should be able to write against each other, regardless of sex of character, but it does bother me a lot.

The reasons for it bothering me more than it should is that some people abuse this mechanic and it can be very, very detrimental to the image of a character that may be imposing due to traits such as physical size or strength. If a tiny woman beats a monster and then buries him verbally – intentionally or unintentionally – it hurts everyone involved. First, the monster lost to a ballerina, and more than likely it was in the type of finish that doesn’t make any sense (ex. Ballerina ninja kicks monster in the head). Second, that monster no longer resembles much of a monster, because … well … he lost to a girl who weighs around one hundred pounds. It just doesn’t make sense.

But everything is fictional and I can understand that people want to write female characters. I personally don’t like to, but that’s only because I don’t feel like I capture their voice all too well. I’m a manly man who loves to hike, fish, work out and eat steaks. I honestly don’t think like a female and it’s the one weak part of my fictional writing that I am truly aware of and want to get better at.

[Deleted]

I like being able to write against everyone and anyone. From an in character perspective? Yeah it's totally unrealistic but I try to consider that when creating a character and making attributes. If anyone has seen my applications for characters in Davey's feds, I never have them high for striking and strength because realistically, a small woman would not hit anywhere near as hard as a brute man, nor would they be able to swing that man around. Instead, they'll exceed elsewhere - agility, speed, mental attributes - and I feel that helps the realism a little bit.